Rant about STUPID friends....

[Guest Anonymous]

OKay.... I dont know what the deal is, maybe I'm in a bad mood, but everyone Ive talked to today is just hitting a nerve...
First off... Talked to one of my best friends today (I call her my bitch friend, cause she is a major B). She just called to tell me she brought home a new dog. 3/4 wolf. Now, she has argued with me my entire life about how dangerous APBTs are, said they are unpredictable, yet, she comes home with a wild animal. She has 3 other dogs and a ton of chickens. Ummm, you know those chickens arent going to be around a whole lot longer, right?? She thinks she can train the wild out of the wolf. She already has 3 dogs out of control!!?? Anyway, she preceeds to tell me the dog bit her husband a few days ago for him getting to close to her. Not only that, but she goes on to say she almost tripped over him yesterday and he bit her. Her defense, "he didnt mean to!!" So of course I went on to ask her why she thought APBTs were bad dogs when I have had them forever and NEVER been bitten by one? She started to get pretty defensive continuously saying how she can train it out of him. She hung up on me when I told her she wouldnt be able to (once a people biter, always a people biter) and that she should put him down since he has already bitten both hands that feed him.
WTF?? Im so flustered right now....

[xavierandrea]

I think if the dog bit without provoction (sp) then something is seriously wrong and it probally needs to be put down. If your friend can't control the ones she has then she shouldn't have the new one. Hope your day gets better.

[pyrless]

that is like having a bobc@t in the house...

[DogPaddle]

There are way to many retards around here who think they can provide a home for a wolfhybrid. There must be a breeder in the general area and if I find him or her I'm going to go punch them in the face and then really "explain" things to them. There is a guy outside of town who provides a habitat for the hybrids that didn't work out, he is always at capacity. When we eventually get our property out of town I might see about talking to him, checking out his rescue and providing some habitat as well.

[Seijun]

First off, chances are slim that it is really 3/4 wolf. Reliable breeders don't use that terminology anyway. A wolfdog that has a lot of wolf content is RARE. The vast majority of breeders out there sell northern breed dogs misrepresented as wolfdogs, so it is more likely that this is what your friend has (I know, maybe, only 4 or 5 breeders on the net selling REAL high contents, in comparison to 20 or more others selling fake high contents).

Second off, saying you "can't train the wild out" of it is not entirely true. A wolfdog is not a wild animal, nor is it a wolf. It's more accurate to say you "cannot train the instincts out" of it. This is true for any animal, "wild" or "domestic." Like with any pet, you have to be prepared to deal with the intense instincts that are sometimes present when you choose to get a wolfdog. A responsible owner never gets a wolfdog with the intent of "training out its instincts." A responsible owner gets a wolfdog with the intent of "handling what instincts are present." Again, this is true of ANY animal.

Thirdly, you [i]can[/i] keep a bobcat as a house pet, at least part of the time :wink: . It is important though to have a secure outdoor enclosure for it as well. Bobcats can be destructive indoors, but I do know that there are those who have chosen to sacrifice some indoor possessions for a housecat bobcat.

Lastly, regardless of all of this, this person should not have a wolfdog, misrepresented northern breed mix, or any other kind of dog. It sounds like the animal she has now has a dominance issue, likely brought on by a lack of training. In the end, someone will get seriously hurt, and it will once again come back as bad PR for my "breed." She is the sort of person who could get wolfdogs banned in her area, even her state, and in the end innocent dogs/wolfdog will be paying for it. I hate irresponsible pet owners :x

~Seij

[courtnek]

thank you Seijun. thats exactly what I was going to say. while i firmly believe that the general population should NOT own wolfdogs, bobcats, tigers, etc....there are some people who can and do successfully. these people know the inner workings of a pack animal, and understand them
(in a wolfdogs case, not a bobcat....no pack behavior there!) I also think in many cases the general population should not ownPit Bulls, GSD's and
some of the other more dominant breeds (excluding Pits, who are not dominant but need special handling) for any reason. these are not the "dogs next door"....they require a special ower, who understands what they're getting into, and what structure the animal needs and how to enforce it without pain. why is it that the police rarely have issues with their K9 dogs, but John Q. Public gets bitten by his? Because the police are put through training on how to handle the dog, dominate the dog and
be alpha to it, without injury to either.

this is a horrible mistake on your friends part, and the dog will be the one to suffer. I trip over my dogs in the dark all the time. none have ever even attempted to bite me. Freebee will yelp and growl, if I hurt her, but never bite. its almost like she's saying KLUTZ under her breath....more of a grumble then a growl.

Laurel just moves out of the way. in fact, proper NILIF training tells you to make the dog move if its in your way, dont step over it, make it get up and go somewhere else. (for an overly dominant dog that you're trying to train, you can step over the mellow sleeping dog).

this girl and her husband are going to end up being badly hurt by this
animal. I just pray there are no children in that household.....

:evil: :evil: :evil: :evil:

[Canis erectus]

I agree completely with Seijun and Courtnek and couldn't have stated it better myself. I would like to add that millions of people all over the world keep wild animals as pets. Animals such as snakes and parrots are by no means domesticated, I would even consider housecats as being margianally domesticated, being kept commonly as 'pets' only in recent history. It's really a question of whether an individual person has the physical and intellectual means to safely keep a wild animal. Obviously when a smaller animal acts out, like a parrot for example, there is considerably less physical risk involved to a person than when, say a wolf hybrid, is involved. There are some folks who are capable of caring for wildlife, however the vast majority of us are not for various reasons.

I also want to say that I had fairly recently met an old man who told me that he had a pet bobcat. Of course I didn't believe him until I saw it for myself, he just happened to be a client at the clinic I work at and had brought the cat in for routines a few months afterward. He (the bobcat) is actually very well mannered and responsive, although being something like 15 years old and only having three legs probably made him rather passive.

[JackieMaya]

Unfortunately, it seems that the majority of people who have wild animals as pets are the kind of people who absolutely don't have a clue and shouldn't even have domesticated pets. GRRR!

[Guest Anonymous]

I havent talked to her since then. She wont take my calls. Her husband answered yesterday and said shes just ticked cause he told her he thinks they'll end up having to put him down.

The person who bred him said his father was full and mother was 1/2. Who knows if he was telling the truth or not. He looks like a full-blooded wolf... Absolutely gorgeous! Of course, looks are deceiving.
Anyhow, I agree that not everyone are fit to own "wild animals". I do however think it is wrong to mix wolves and dogs.
I stand by saying you cant train the wild out of them...
[quote]Second off, saying you "can't train the wild out" of it is not entirely true. A wolfdog is not a wild animal, nor is it a wolf. It's more accurate to say you "cannot train the instincts out" of it.[/quote]
Their instincts are what make them wild animals.
You can train them to tolerate certain situations, but they still have those instincts there, and that makes them wild animals.

[Seijun]

[quote]Their instincts are what make them wild animals.
You can train them to tolerate certain situations, but they still have those instincts there, and that makes them wild animals.[/quote]

By your deffinition then, even beagles are wild animals. Think about it--beagles have the instinct to chase rabbits, so if you put one in with a rabbit, they will probably chase it no matter what--that is an instinct that cannot be changed, in a situation you will probably never be able to make the beagle tolerate (being in a room wityh a rabbit and NOT chasing it).

~Seij

[courtnek]

and this part of the reason why beagles, foxhounds, greyhounds end up in shelters...no one looked into why they behave the way they do...


:evil:

[Seijun]

Just to add, I recently did a research project about wild animals vs domestic animals. In the end, I was able to conclude that probably the biggest (and possibly only) thing separating wild animals from domestic animals is there reliance on humans. Domestic animals tend to rely more on humans. Wild animals rely very little on humans, most of the time not at all. (Although in turn, reliance on humans also affects many other things, such as behavior intensity, how the animal react to different stimuli, etc).

~Seij

[Guest Anonymous]

I dont think the instinct of chasing rabbits can be compared to the instinct of survival. We bred into domesticated dogs what we wanted them to do. Let it be chasing rabbits, herding, hunting, or whatever. We didnt bred the instincts a wolf has to survive into them. Its already there, as the instinct of a wild animal.

[Canis erectus]

Actually the instinct to chase rabbits is a survival instinct= catching your food. Mankind has not bred any instincts into dogs, we have only made certain traits more or less prominant over the centuries through the selective breeding of individuals who possess stronger desired traits for a given task. Every domestic dogs' behavior/instinct can be traced back to a behevior/instinct found in wild canines.

Most dogs will survive just fine when born into the wild (Canaan Dog is a good example) as long as it's body structure has been fooled with so much that it can't (Pekignese). IMO the major thing that keeps wolves from being a generally safe pet is not it's wild instincts, but rather it's lack of centuries of conditioning towards mankind as anything but a predator.

[courtnek]

now here I have to disagree. I dont think wolves consider us so much "predators", (used in the term as someone who hunts them to survive) as in "competition"...most predators tend to avoid each other, and try to not walk on another predator's turf....an instinct we dont have.
we are the ultimate competition, and dont play by normal predatory rules.
in some situations, one predator may take over another's territory, but you can bet its because prey is minimal, and its do or die in those situations. survival of the fittest is not just a term, its a reality.

remember though, that it is commonly believed that the wolf chose
to join us,not the other way around. we had food, fire, and warmth.
it was a long time coming, but eventually both parties realized they could benefit by joining forces. however, its not the same as with a dog. wolves joined us, but didnt necessarily trust us. they made out from the deal, as we did by using their superior hearing and smell capabilities to protect us.
but it wasnt the same as a dog/human interaction. dogs have been mellowed by breeding, and by continual contact with people. wild wolves have not. not to say it cant happen, but they are still more wild then tame, and for that reason, IMO, do NOT make good housepets for JQP.

8)

[Canis erectus]

[quote name='courtnek']now here I have to disagree. I dont think wolves consider us so much "predators", (used in the term as someone who hunts them to survive) as in "competition"...most predators tend to avoid each other, and try to not walk on another predator's turf....an instinct we dont have.
we are the ultimate competition, and dont play by normal predatory rules.
in some situations, one predator may take over another's territory, but you can bet its because prey is minimal, and its do or die in those situations. survival of the fittest is not just a term, its a reality.[/quote]

That's more or less what I meant by predatory. When canines and men first came together out of a more or less mutual arangment, that was long before the wholesale hunting of wolves that began mainly in, what, the Dark Ages? Anyway, just as a species as a whole can adapt to the prospect of mankind being a resource, so too will a species recognize man as a predator when faced with long term persecution. On that note, aren't wolves extinct throughout most of Europe? Or is that bears? I can't remember.

[courtnek]

yes you are correct. and the wholesale slaughter of wolves has pissed me off for decades, which is why I STILL fight it....

nature provided for predators and prey. we screwed the offset..and now we have deer getting hit routinely by cars, causing mass destruction and
human and deer deaths...


I was coming home from a shooting range (yes,I target shoot) and a deer had been hit by a car...and was not only stopping traffic, but looking miserably in pain and trying to get up. couldnt. both front legs were broken by the impact. I called AC. they couldnt have anyone there for at least an hour. I told them I had a gun, could I put this poor creature out of its misery? they asked the cop on the scene. he said it was hopeless, and the poor creature was in terrible pain. they asked for the number on my FOID card. I gave it to them. they ran the check, and said "put him down. we will pick him up later"

so I did. a clean shot right between the eyes. he died instantly. he would not have survived, and I couldnt leave him there in pain...


I took a lot of grief for that....but it was the humane thing to do...


:cry:

[Lucky Chaos]

[quote name='courtnek']yes you are correct. and the wholesale slaughter of wolves has p*** me off for decades, which is why I STILL fight it....

nature provided for predators and prey. we screwed the offset..and now we have deer getting hit routinely by cars, causing mass destruction and
human and deer deaths...


I was coming home from a shooting range (yes,I target shoot) and a deer had been hit by a car...and was not only stopping traffic, but looking miserably in pain and trying to get up. couldnt. both front legs were broken by the impact. I called AC. they couldnt have anyone there for at least an hour. I told them I had a gun, could I put this poor creature out of its misery? they asked the cop on the scene. he said it was hopeless, and the poor creature was in terrible pain. they asked for the number on my FOID card. I gave it to them. they ran the check, and said "put him down. we will pick him up later"

so I did. a clean shot right between the eyes. he died instantly. he would not have survived, and I couldnt leave him there in pain...


I took a lot of grief for that....but it was the humane thing to do...


:cry:[/quote]

Thats a noble thing you did courtnek, I couldn't have done it myself. But obviously there was no other choice and the poor thing had no chance. At least it didn't have to die slowly.